Saturday, October 08, 2011
The Big Picture for the Week of October 9, 2011
A reader left a question a couple of days ago asking my opinion on how to determine a market bottom. My thought process here will probably seem a little Hussmanesque.
I tend to think of this in terms of probabilities and whether or not the market gets the benefit of the doubt at a given moment. A contributing factor here is duration. Earlier in the week I saw a stat about bear markets lasting four hundred and something days and we were only 150 days in (by some measure). The exact numbers cited don't matter to me so much is the general understanding that bear markets last well over a year on average and we are only a few months in.
That assumes of course that we actually left the 2008 bear market and then had a bull market. My thought there has been that this will all be looked back upon as one big financial event and in late 2011 we are still in the middle of it. If I am wrong and we are in a normal bull bear cycle then based on averages there is still more time to go.
Either way I think we are still early in this bear phase. I would then look at two things to think a bottom is in; one related to time and one related to price. Five or six months from now I would be more inclined to give the market the benefit of the doubt than I would now. Among other things that might give the SPX' 200 DMA time to flatten out or turn higher or for the 50 DMA to cross back above the 200 DMA.
In terms of price, if there were a panic this month or next to something like SPX 800 (or some other level that might be relevant when we got there) would at least be a reason to deploy at least a little cash. A real panic is better to buy, although it is difficult to do. We bought a little into the Lehman panic in 2008 and a little in early 2009, before the low, but in hindsight we should have bought more.
The perspective here is more in line with my thoughts about targeting a result over the entire cycle as opposed to short term trades. Before the open on Tuesday with the SPX at about 1100 I commented that it would not be a shock if the SPX closed the week at 1200, and while it did not get that close it went up a lot, 1170 early in the day on Friday. That is still a pretty good lift for such a short period of time but unfortunately is not a sign of a healthy market hence I am not inclined to give the market the benefit of the doubt here.
The idea of the biggest up days occurring during bear markets is not something I came up with of course but something I have referred to often in this context because it seems to be pretty reliable.
I said I have been influenced by John Hussman on this subject but am generally willing to look more like the market than he is. I mention this as an example of taking bits of process from various sources to create your own process.
I tend to think of this in terms of probabilities and whether or not the market gets the benefit of the doubt at a given moment. A contributing factor here is duration. Earlier in the week I saw a stat about bear markets lasting four hundred and something days and we were only 150 days in (by some measure). The exact numbers cited don't matter to me so much is the general understanding that bear markets last well over a year on average and we are only a few months in.
That assumes of course that we actually left the 2008 bear market and then had a bull market. My thought there has been that this will all be looked back upon as one big financial event and in late 2011 we are still in the middle of it. If I am wrong and we are in a normal bull bear cycle then based on averages there is still more time to go.
Either way I think we are still early in this bear phase. I would then look at two things to think a bottom is in; one related to time and one related to price. Five or six months from now I would be more inclined to give the market the benefit of the doubt than I would now. Among other things that might give the SPX' 200 DMA time to flatten out or turn higher or for the 50 DMA to cross back above the 200 DMA.
In terms of price, if there were a panic this month or next to something like SPX 800 (or some other level that might be relevant when we got there) would at least be a reason to deploy at least a little cash. A real panic is better to buy, although it is difficult to do. We bought a little into the Lehman panic in 2008 and a little in early 2009, before the low, but in hindsight we should have bought more.
The perspective here is more in line with my thoughts about targeting a result over the entire cycle as opposed to short term trades. Before the open on Tuesday with the SPX at about 1100 I commented that it would not be a shock if the SPX closed the week at 1200, and while it did not get that close it went up a lot, 1170 early in the day on Friday. That is still a pretty good lift for such a short period of time but unfortunately is not a sign of a healthy market hence I am not inclined to give the market the benefit of the doubt here.
The idea of the biggest up days occurring during bear markets is not something I came up with of course but something I have referred to often in this context because it seems to be pretty reliable.
I said I have been influenced by John Hussman on this subject but am generally willing to look more like the market than he is. I mention this as an example of taking bits of process from various sources to create your own process.
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7 comments:
Thanks for the reply. I like your approach to an extent for bear markets.
Unfortunately I am not yet convinced this is more than a severe correction - YET.
We will see. My view is the under cut low was the bottom until proven otherwise.
After a difficult week I get a rest day today :) Atleast my motorhome is in good shape after a bunch of fixes.
BTW thanks for the advice on hiking the canyon. I am not in great shape IMO and only went to the ooh ahh point on the kaibab trail (big mistake) the day seemed so easy the next day I went further on the trail to the rest area with rest rooms. No problem except it started raining. So I hiked back up with rain, hail, and lightning. Pretty good time actually but I was stupid in not getting more info on the weather.
Even my wife with rheumatoid arthritis made it to the ooh ahh point on the second day, so I do not think you need to be in great shape to do a day hike in the canyon
It was so easy 30 years ago when I got out of school and the weather was good.
THANKS for your advice!
glad to hear the canyon went well!
Hey Roger...long time, no chat.
Regarding your "retirement" blog. I was unceremoniously discharged from my recruiting job at the ripe old age of 62. It was in the financial services arena and I must say, after 27 years as a financial advisor (not RIA), wholesaler and recruiter....enough was enough!
As a result, I had to consider early SS income and my other options for an unprepared for but otherwise welcome retirement. Here's what happened:
Took the Social Security. Had a VA purchased in 2002 that pays a fixed rate of 3% year so moved everything to the fixed bucket (thanks Bill Gross)! I live in Florida, so began servicing swimming pools and am an avid tennis player. So I bought an inexpensive racquet stringing machine and will be earning a steady income from that as well...and it's all fun!
What will you do?
Thanks!
Phil, CLU, ChFC
The canyon is a MUST do.
SEG
Hi Phil, glad to hear you were prepared for the new chapter.
What would I do? I'm self employed so being out of work somehow would be a different circumstance but I hope to manage money until i am very old. There are also all sorts of opportunities with fire to earn a little money with the context being relieve some of the burden of the portfolio. Hopefully I can continue to write until I am very old as well.
Rigged? Of course it -- any system complex enough to require expertise will appear rigged to the novice by default -- but analyzing whether it is more or less rigged than historically means little: In a system that relies upon sales the only relevant question is: does return provide adequate value to the buyer to compensate for the rigging.
For over 20 years -- back when I was younger and also (ahem) not quite as fat -- I took groups river rafting down the Colorado river system -- mostly in Grand Canyon and Marble but also Cataract and West Water Canyons (above Glenn) and the tributary Green River (Grey and Desolation Canyons). Not only did it never become familiar enough to pall but every year seemed to build on the next, intensifying the experience more and more (it helped that a number of these excursions were with student groups; seeing things through the eyes of young people is an experience I can recommend to anyone).
Lost a big toe nail once on the steeper Kaibab trail (where there are no rest areas) but still preferred it to the Bright Angel trial, mainly because it got you to the river faster. The hike to the N. Rim I only did twice and will probably not do again -- if I do any of those trails again it will probably be Bass Creek -- but have to agree that every N. American should pay the Canyon a visit and test themselves a bit; it does the spirit good.
Oops, mixed two comments in a single response. Oh well: the "rigged" comment was related to an earlier post (obviously) but not entirely inappropriate to the assessment of a market bottom which, I tend to agree, we have probably not seen yet.
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