Wikinvest Wire

Monday, May 09, 2011

Withdrawal Rates

A reader passed along a very dense paper that attempted to transform the conversation about safe withdrawal rates into a conversation about "safe savings rates." The paper was very wordy (kettle calling the pot?) and frankly I found the term safe savings rate to be misleading--not in a deceitful way but in a poorly communicated way. I think the point was to sort of work backwards to calculate how much you need to save to have enough money such that your portfolio replaces half of your final salary without depleting.

Some of the assumptions included 30 years of accumulation followed by 30 years of "decumulation" and maintaining a 60/40 equities/fixed income target throughout. The article focused a lot on when you retire, in relation to the stock market being low or high, as going a long way toward determining safe withdrawal rates and "safe savings rates."

Of interest to me was the data show the variability in what constituted a safe withdrawal rate. About the lowest safe withdrawal rate was the familiar 4% with the higher safe withdrawal rates being between 8-10%. Again this depends when you retire which is largely a function of luck in relation to the stock market cycle. It is very likely, based on the data on this paper, that someone who retired December 31, 2008 will be able to safely withdraw a higher percentage than the person who retired one year later after the market had gone up 25%. The chart of safe withdrawal rates was very volatile.

It is important to understand what the 4% rule really is. The idea is that by sticking to 4% a retiree gives themselves the best chance of not outliving their money, it is sort of a worst case scenario strategy which I think is prudent. There is nothing that says a 10% withdrawal rate can't work, it could. It would depend on variables that are beyond ones control making 10% imprudent but it could work. The lower the withdrawal rate the better the chance for success but there are no guarantees with any withdrawal rate--realistically it would be difficult to fail with a 1.5% rate unless there was some sort of medical catastrophe that had to be paid for out of pocket.

The concept of safe saving seemed to be about figuring how much to save but if I read it correctly (and I may not have, it really was wordy) it relies on a lot of assumptions about future unknowable events but at least it called for very high savings rates (most of the time). While plenty of people will disagree with me on this I think articles showing the need for very high savings rates have a better chance for metaphorically hitting people in the face with some reality and understanding of how far behind they might be. Collectively we are woefully behind where we need to be.

You might be able to get more out of the article than I did but I would circle back to a few points I have made before that seem to often be overlooked in these types of articles. First is linear returns; the paper took actual data and derived averages based on a retirement starting every year going back to 1901 so these were real market experiences although really not real experiences of people. The assumption of linear returns can muddy the waters in terms of taking the same $40,000 out when the market is up 20% versus flat versus down 15% and of course the one off events that occur every month. Beware of assumptions of linear returns.

I would also focus on replacement of some portion of your expenses not your income. For people who live below their means (hopefully that is you) replacing expenses becomes much easier to do. If you make $10,000/month and live off of $4000 while you work, in retirement the savings rate would go down (probably to zero) and the tax bill would drop by at least $1400/month (the FICA) and maybe more depending on the circumstance. If the $4000 includes a mortgage that will be paid off then all the better. If the goal is replacing 50% of expenses then at this point the portfolio only needs to be $600,000 which is not inconsiderable but much easier than $1.25 million to replace half of a $100,000 income. Of course none of that offers a guarantee and it ignores the one-offs that come every month (examples include vet bills, car repairs, home repairs, dental incidents and so on).

For now my thoughts remain save as much as possible, live below your means, plan on working a few hours a week doing something you love after you've "retired," don't take more than 1% per quarter (or better yet take less) and because this has been a source of humor and teasing over the years; don't drink soda.

Also, don't plan on getting social security and medicare. It would be better to plan on not getting them and being wrong than to plan on getting them and be wrong about that. I'll mention my not too popular idea again of paying in the full $17,000, getting nothing out but letting me contribute to my SEP with no limits and writing off the entire contribution.

The events of the last four years hurt a lot more people than most of us have seen hurt in a single financial event. The financial crisis drew comparisons to the great depression but not everyone was seriously damaged 80 years ago and not everyone was seriously damaged over the last fours years either. While being prudent and conservative will not ensure anything I have to believe the more prudent and conservative a person was the less likely they were to be seriously damaged.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

I tend to agree with you much of the time on most topics so in no way is this deriding you.

I will say that I think sometimes you get skewed by your situation. Most people are not in the situation of:

1) guessing here but - job that pays several times the national average.

2) Can be done very remotely.

3) No commute/office/work clothes/no a ton of work travel/etc

4) Not everyone has this type of job where they can do for a very long time.

4) No kids - this covers A LOT of time and $$$

I know that much of this is by your choice and your approach is one many more fellow citizens should follow but you, in my mind, are not the average american.

On another note - I it seems most financial writers, such as yourself and contributors over at SA are still working.

I truly enjoy reading comments from, and pay close attention to, those who are actual retirees.

There's the "planned world" from the those writing articles and the "real world" from those retirees living it.

Roger Nusbaum said...

I am skewed by my situation but it is a situation I sought out and created. I believe more people could seek out and create whatever is ideal to them than actually do. This takes some ingenuity and going forward I think individual successes will require more and more of this especially if traditional govt benefits are meaningfully altered. Hopefully these posts and the ones about my neighbor with the backhoe get people thinking about how to improve their situation.

To your numbered points; if number 1 is true then I am just lucky, number 2 is a function of ingenuity but this is not what everyone wants to do, the same with number 3, number 4 can be an evolution of interests over time and what you probably meant as number 5 is a choice for most people with no right or wrong choice only right or wrong for the individual.

Justin said...

I think we will see/are seeing higher inflation coming through the pipe, with interest rates at record lows still. Commodities won't keep on going up forever, although they may be inflated (no pun intended) for some time to come. Property is still not a sure thing to safeguard savings after such an incredible decade.

Company valuations/earnings and stocks historically don't go down or stay flat for long periods of time, on average, so that is where I choose to save my long-term and short term savings. If I have to withdraw I'm doing so from the total return funds I have and will let the pure equity part ride for as long as possible - unless macro conditions dictate otherwise.

Plus I take a little pride in getting more for less and being prepared for a rainy day, as well as doing without unnecessary purchases - for example who really needs a desktop, laptop, notebook, tablet and smart phone?

Anonymous said...

Justin:

Your last sentence includes the two words "unnecessary purchases"

Lots of folks apparently need one or more of each of those.

Our economy has become built around "unnecessary purchases."

I dread to think of how low our GDP as well as stock markets would go if it weren't for those two words.

Anonymous said...

And how 'bout that grreat housing report?

Many Americans have (had) their single largest investment within their personal residence. It is estimated that almost 30% of ALL mortgage loans for single family residences are under water.

This situation profoundly impacts "saving for retirement". This is not often articulated within "saving for retirement" pieces.

Zillow expects a further 8% decline the remainder of 2011 and no relief in 2012.

T

Anonymous said...

I agree with you (among other things) about your admonition about soda. I had two heart stents before I stopped drinking the stuff. Excessive sugar turns into fat particles in the blood stream which leads to clogged arteries, among other problems.

Justin said...

@ anon 12:48 PM,
My last 'and' should've been in italics. I have a smart(ish) phone and a laptop - enough for me and, to be honest, surely enough for anybody? The laptop is portable enough to carry over your shoulder and has an ethernet port and usb ports and a SATA port (what ever that is) and an HDMI port and a dvd player and speakers and wifi and bluetooth, the phone has 3G and wifi and bluetooth and a mini USB port.

I regularly read books on my phone and laptop, watch media on my laptop, listen to music when I'm out on my phone, play games on both, Skype from home (if 'Skype' is now a verb, like Google) shop on my laptop, search for info/holidays/stock charts etc on both etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Not spending hundreds of money for a tablet, a desktop and a notebook has enabled me to spend it instead on investing, which not only gives me hours of activity (I dare not say 'pleasure') but won't break, get stolen (in the literal sense), go out of fashion, become technically obsolete in 11 seconds and won't have to have smudges cleaned off it every time I breathe.

I think without the really unnecessary purchases we'd probably find things to buy that we need; for me this is a safe future but other people could do with driving ed, eating ed and 'how to keep your job' ed.

/rant off

Have a nice day.

Wade Pfau said...

Dear Roger,

I came across your post from a "Google alert" for "safe savings rates". I'm the author of the article in question.

Thank you for the comments.

I share your concern about "linear returns." Just to be clear about this, I did not use average returns for this paper. I actually used the historical sequence of returns which allows for the volatility of returns to play its proper role.

I also share your concern about replacing expenditures rather than income. I need to communicate that point better. I choose the 50% replacement rate as a baseline, which seems rather low, because after retiring you no longer have to save for retirement or pay the payroll tax, for instance.

If you would like to find a shorter but still technical summary of the article, I have that on my blog:

http://wpfau.blogspot.com/2011/02/safe-savings-rates-new-approach-to.html

Thank you and best wishes, Wade

Roger Nusbaum said...

Wade,

Thank you for the added color to your paper. I shortened up your blog link so readers could click through a little easier.

Thank you again.

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