Wikinvest Wire

Sunday, March 14, 2010

Sunday Morning Coffee

As a followup to yesterday's post about the Super Cycle Oscillator pointing to several more years of bad real returns in the equity market Barron's published a short article drawing the same conclusion using what appears to be a completely different data set.

The article was written by Thomas Kee Jr. from Stock Traders Daily. The indicator is called the Investment Rate and it measures demand for asset classes based on demographic trends. As a very simplistic example baby boomers pulling back from equities as they get older indicates a headwind for equities because that investment demand is going away.

The big macro of this is easy to follow and I think the concept makes sense. I write about investment demand often but a little more micro than what Kee is focusing on.

As you look at the back test of this it is obviously remarkable and in the time he has done this in real time, since the start of the last bull market, it creates a bit of an uh-oh just like the Super Cycle chart. The article does not spell out how he was able to compile data from 100 years ago and similar to yesterday's post it would be reasonable to question whether demand for equities in 1912 offers any insight into what demand for equities will be in 2012. I have to think that the equity market participation rate back then was a microscopic fraction of what it has been in the last, what, 20 years or maybe 30 years.

I don't know of course it just seems like the obvious question. Question asked the idea of baby boomers thinking they need less equity exposure seems like it will obviously be a headwind. Jeremy Siegel has said many times that investment demand lost from baby boomers will be made up by a new class of emerging market investors who want to own the best companies in the world (paraphrase). I've heard Siegel make this argument several times and it makes no intuitive sense to me whatsoever.

That the US has a demographic problem is not new and is not really disputed that I am aware of but the US is not alone in this. Japan might have a bigger problem than the US, China has a problem that some feel could start to manifest itself as soon as 2015 and big Western European countries that I think are such lousy investment destinations all have demographic problems of varying magnitudes and timelines.

Countries with young average ages is a positive attribute for an investment destination and of course a trait we often see in emerging markets. In just about every article for theStreet that I write about an emerging market something-or-other I mention the average age listed as one of the positives (in the instances where that is the case of course).

A reader commented on yesterday's post asking what I was going to do if equity returns will be this bad for a while longer. Well I've been doing it (and writing about it for years). One theme of this blog from the start (with no claim of originality) has been that the US is slowly, or quickly depending on your view, becoming a less attractive investment destination. I've slowly been increasing client exposure to foreign equities as a big long term macro.

The popularity of home bias as a blogging topic ebbs and flows but just as success in the last decade hindered on owning the right countries (along with a couple of big sector calls) so too will that be the case in the new decade. It is very unlikely that the right countries are the ones that dominate the EAFE Index. If you've been following this thread with me for a while I think all of these things have been quite obvious as long lasting headwinds for the US. This not to say that I was right about the magnitude of any of this because I wasn't but the US as less attractive has been obvious.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Jeremy Siegel has said many times that investment demand lost from baby boomers will be made up by a new class of emerging market investors who want to own the best companies in the world (paraphrase)."

I think he is right. The US will not be over looked as an investment destination and stock values will not be allowed to go to low as foreign buyers will step in to diversify their portfolios.

But I do agree with you basic theme that we will should have more foreign equities in our portfolios in the future.

I also agree their will be tough sledding ahead for the markets one day. That is why I have advocated people not take more than 2% from their assets as opposed to the more normal 4% in the years ahead. Market difficulties and taking 4% could devastate a portfolio over the next 5 to 10 years.

All that said we still seem to be in a bull market and their is no reason to take defensive action now if the market continues to go up for another year or two.

What are you going to say if the S&P reaches new highs before problems resurface????? That is not a prediction, but all I can see now is the trend is from the lower left to the upper right of the chart and I can not predict when this bull market will end based on the information available today.

SEG

Anonymous said...

RW,
when I go to yahoo ^N225(http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5En225) I do not get its components. If you have other way to get the N225 components other than bloomberg I appreciate that info. TX.

Roger,
thanks for yesterday’s and today's post. It affirms what I wrote on 11/2/2010 on this blog. I posted two comments one where we are in respect to '70's market and the other spelling out how I got there. By the way, Paul is correct also for saying that investors will be down when you look at a very long term. Let me explain. We have put in a super cycle low at S&P 666. We have not made a top from here yet(SEG is correct too), but we are close(on 5/3/2010 spelled out on a post). After this top we will go down perhaps to S&P900 after this we will have a bull market. What will happen is that things will get better but the P/E will contract so from where we are we will be in a multi year consolidation just like we did from '76 to '80. It will be a hard time for investments. The keyword is surviving this sideway movement. American business will get stronger so as to be ready for the next cycle bull market.
When I put this puzzle together, this is what I get.
MikeC, hope things are well.
Best,
Jeff from Milan, Italy

RW said...

Roger, unlike Japan and China the US still has appreciable levels of immigration so, assuming no major clampdown in fact rather than rhetoric, our demographic curve is less likely to bend downwards and our GDP growth curve should normalize longer term.

The US has lost and will continue to lose global power but this process will take some time and does not necessarily equate to a loss in livability or investability; in fact, somewhat independently from Siegel's point, it could be argued that less of our wealth applied abroad would imply more spending and better conditions here at home.

In difficult times I do tend to recall Eric Hoffer's observation that "[O]ur achievements speak for themselves. What we have to keep track of are our failures, discouragements, and doubts. We tend to forget the past difficulties, the many false starts, and the painful groping. We see our past achievements as the end result of a clean forward thrust, and our present difficulties as signs of decline and decay." A good antidote for recency bias is to study history.

Jeff, you might try searching Reuters at http://www.reuters.com/ but the English version of nikkei.com at http://e.nikkei.com may be a better bet (they allow visitors but I don't know what access restrictions apply).

Anonymous said...

Another difference for EMs is a lack of a welfare state and often little in the way of democracy, which both give some advantages to their economies.

Obviously welfare is a huge drain on a state's resources as its population ages. Without politicians making short-term, ballot box-led decisions, such as increasing or introducing benefits to those who are less advantaged, the families in these countries will have to look out for the older generations and also increase savings for their own retirement.

I see it that these will produce headwinds, as money circulates more slowly, for those countries' private sectors without government/central bank aid.

Love that quote, RW.

Mike C said...

When I put this puzzle together, this is what I get.
MikeC, hope things are well.


Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the thought. Same boat here as you just trying to put this puzzle together. What is this? Start of new secular bull? Probably not. 3rd-4th inning of a 2-3 year cyclical bull? Or a massive bear market rally putting in a double top at 1150?

I'm with SEG here. The preponderance of evidence I think suggests multi-year cyclical bull I think. I think we go past May 2010, but I'll respond to the technical evidence as it emerges. Valuations suck here, but the trend is up.

http://www.decisionpoint.com/ChartSpotliteFiles/100312_cspot.html

I am concerned about the consistent overvalue condition that has been the norm since the early 1990s, but it has persisted through two bull markets and two bear markets, demonstrating that investors just don't care about value. And the value range analysis we do, while an interesting curiosity, is not of much use for decision-making in the current environment. Follow the trend.

http://www.optionetics.com/market/articles/22401?utm_source=optionetics&utm_medium=wnl&utm_campaign=

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/lowry-research-update-cyclical-bull-market-intact-3695.html

I just want to try and leave the party before the clock strikes midnight.

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