Wikinvest Wire

Wednesday, March 10, 2010

More Montier

A site called Simolean Sense posted a lengthy interview with James Montier who of course now works at GMO. Montier's comments were really a smorgasbord behavioral observations, assessments of psychological obstacles and other useful nuggets.

First up was that while he does a lot of reading he said most of what he reads is more about studying human behavior the specific market information. I would characterize this in part as benefiting from other people's mistakes. While this is useful I might fine tune it some to each person needing understand what they are vulnerable to. There are plenty of fallacies and other types unproductive behaviors that impede investment success and no one has all of them. This requires introspection.

He also talked about information overload. This contrasts nicely with the quote yesterday from Jim Rogers who believes in watching everything. I probably fall closer to Rogers but what I would add is that I like to read people that I know I will disagree with.

Coincidentally I exchanged emails with a buddy who asked me what I thought of a particular blogger. The blogger in question does a great job with isolating relevant issues and then asking the right questions but he often answers those questions incorrectly or does not seem to read the data correctly with some of his opinions. He is not always wrong obviously and not wrong even half the time but even though he is obviously wrong some portion of the time there is value in the issues he isolates so I read him. The need to sort out and even dismiss is handy skill to have in trying to study markets.

Montier said people focus too much on the outcome not the process in a sort of live in the moment comment. But then a few sentences later he said;

It appears as if investors have a chronic case of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. The average holding period for a stock on the New York Stock Exchange is just 6 months! This has nothing to do with investment, and everything to do with speculation. Having a longer time horizon than these speculators appears to be one of the most enduring edges an investor can possess.


In a way each sentiment could be saying two different things. I would tie them together by noting that there is no single process that can be the best every day, quarter or year. Hopefully whatever your process is you have reason to believe it gives you a chance to get the job done in the long term, whatever that means to you. Focusing on process could mean not losing faith in a reasonable method during one of those periods where that method is not the best.

The idea of a longer time horizon being an enduring edge is similar to Hussman's thinking in terms of measuring the result over an entire stock market cycle which has been a big influence on me. I know plenty of people view portfolio construction and cycle navigation differently than how I do but the task is much easier when you embrace the fact that big declines happen every so often, you will not "outperform" the market every year and a simple yet reliable defensive trigger point for defense can go a long way to enduring through with less emotion and less emotion should result in fewer mistakes.

One last item was a quote that Montier cited from Paul Samuelson “Investing should be dull, like watching paint dry or grass grow.” Personally I find the work exciting and interesting but I do spend a lot of time trying to make the portfolio dull.

11 comments:

Paul said...

While buy & hold is certainly far from dead or even on life-support, in this era of real-time information exchange it is increasingly difficult to keep holdings beyond six months. In the past when information was a premium and not a commodity, the pace of dissemination was much slower and ignorance was bliss. As you reference in your post both yesterday and today, having good sources of information and a solid methodology of evaluation is critical to keep from the ADHD trading patterns.

Another issue is the advent of High Frequency Trading and the hedge firms such as SAC that have reduced the capital markets to high stakes gambling. My ongoing theory/hypothesis is that the main street investor is losing confidence in the capital markets as a fair playing field and an "investment vacuum" has been created. When this vacuum is filled with a perceived "fair" investment option, our markets will change dramatically from what we know today. Just a thought!

Anonymous said...

I don't know if the markets were ever a "fair" playing field, but today, they seem to be much more "unfair" to the average participant.

Anonymous said...

If no one owns stock long term, then no one cares about long term ownership issues. This is a major problem in my mind and just one more reason to give dividends preferential tax treatment. We must have owners of firms that care. Additionally dividends are real and lots of other accounting gimicks are not.

Unfortunately, it will take years for the government to figure any of this out - if ever.

SEG

Stephen Drone said...

"in this era of real-time information exchange it is increasingly difficult to keep holdings beyond six months. "

Honestly, I see no real reason for the last 2 years to change your timeline. One could make a case for market timing, sure, but one can always make that case around a market crash. I think if you have a sensible plan and that plan includes a good asset allocation and rebalancing, and you stick to that plan, you're gonna do fine.

Paul said...

@Stephen - wasn't trying to point out a timing issue. My only thought is that as information flies around about any one holding, if any of the information is perceived as negative, the ADHD traders/gamblers sell. If on the wrong side of the trade, it is hard to hold through the firestorm.

In past generations, information took longer to be passed on and often went through a filtering process that potentially eliminated useless negativity. Today that process is dead and information must be reverse engineered to determine value and/or necessary action. IMHO!

Anonymous said...

My holding time is typically over 12 months and may be years. I do not typically buy unless I believe the outlook is favorable for an extended period.

Although their are occasions that I will trade over short periods, but this has never really made me a lot of money. Most of my gains are from longer term holdings.

But being a perma bull or perma bear would also be detrimental to a portfolio.

SEG

Anonymous said...

If you are selling and buying stocks then you are speculator. Period.

Investing has NOTHING to do with buying and selling stocks in the stock market.

Liquidity, alpha, beta, blah blah blah is 100% nonsense to any real investor.

I do not any liquidity to make a great investment. If the price is right, then the price is right.

You will NOT learn anything from INVESTING reading about stock trading.

Roger Nusbaum said...

so are you saying that investment merits of a holding never change?

Rhianni32 said...

"Investing has NOTHING to do with buying and selling stocks in the stock market."

How exactly does one invest without buying a stock? Also why would you invest in a company if you werent eventually going to get money out of it, preferrably by selling?

Anonymous said...

Markets are unfair when you lose.

Markets are splendid when you win.

Investing is really a simple act, when you win.

Anonymous said...

I would like to add that I have the majority of investments in ETFs and Funds. The single stocks I hold are keepers (blue chips) that will probably be sold in retirement or passed on when I, er, pass on. If the ETF and Fund managers buy and sell I suppose I am sort of part of that, but other than that I have developed into a lazy investor who trades on average a couple of times a year.

Roger, apologies for the change of subject; I don't recall you speaking much about REITs, is this because they appear to be on shaky ground? I ask this Q as I am about 40% cash, (the other 60% is stocks and commodities) without a property of my own for several years (working abroad for the foreseeable, I have colleagues in similar positions), and am considering drip-feeding into a long-term (10+ years) property fund to give me some balance.

Thanks to you Roger and to ALL commentors who make this blog my first port of call when I fire the old laptop up.

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