Friday, January 22, 2010
Maybe A Second Cup Of Herbal Tea?
Yesterday's post was a reminder about how volatility tends to work and about letting the market do its thing for your account over longer periods of time. The post made a critical assumption that I'm surprised no one noticed. I didn't even think of it until I was shoveling slush in the pouring rain yesterday.
All the talk about keeping emotions in check and looking at results over a full stock market cycle assumed the correct asset allocation. The extreme volatility of last couple of years has hopefully taught people a thing or two about their own tolerances. Ideally this would have happened ten years ago, the first time in recent memory that the US stock market cut in half.
There have been a couple of times since March, well off the bottom, where I rhetorically asked to think about your mindset back in March. What number did you say if I can only get back to $x then I'm gonna fill in the blank (cut back, get out, whatever). First of all if you had this sort of conversation with yourself then there is a good chance that you have too much in equities or had to much if you have since sold down your exposure.
A useful thought for this discussion which I just mentioned the other day is from Nassim Nicholas Taleb. To paraphrase; if people understood the risks of investing in the stock market they would never do it.
I don't believe this is a practical concept for financial planning but it serves as a bit of a building block for an investing philosophy. Another building block at the other end of the spectrum is that from a numbers standpoint there is an argument to be made for 100% equities all the time. I don't advocate that for several reasons but there is an argument there. Yes the last ten years have been bad for equities, well actually no, the last ten years have been bad for certain equities. The oughts were not the first decade where stocks "did not work" but I do not believe for a moment they are permanently broken.
You all probably know the behavioral finance nugget about negative emotions from losses being far more powerful than the positive emotions that come from stocks going up. People tend to forget about the negative emotions they feel when the market is down a lot or when their picks are not working out.
For those of you that did bargain with themselves as described above, did you remember that you did so before I mentioned it above? I have known people older than me that freak out every time the market goes down some and simply are incapable of remembering that this has happened before. The reason I mention them being older than me is that they have been through more big declines than I have yet they cannot remember what it felt like before and can't reason what happened after. I can promise you that you do not remember every fast decline that you have lived through as an investor.
This line of thinking has influenced me in what I do for clients and what I do in our personal accounts. Getting defensive upon a breach of the 200 DMA is driven off of this subject; that is trying to avoid getting to the point of emotional desperation.
Figuring out the right target for you may not be easy. It is a marriage of how the numbers work with your ability to sleep or in the context of this week's posts not have your day determined by how your portfolio does.
All the talk about keeping emotions in check and looking at results over a full stock market cycle assumed the correct asset allocation. The extreme volatility of last couple of years has hopefully taught people a thing or two about their own tolerances. Ideally this would have happened ten years ago, the first time in recent memory that the US stock market cut in half.
There have been a couple of times since March, well off the bottom, where I rhetorically asked to think about your mindset back in March. What number did you say if I can only get back to $x then I'm gonna fill in the blank (cut back, get out, whatever). First of all if you had this sort of conversation with yourself then there is a good chance that you have too much in equities or had to much if you have since sold down your exposure.
A useful thought for this discussion which I just mentioned the other day is from Nassim Nicholas Taleb. To paraphrase; if people understood the risks of investing in the stock market they would never do it.
I don't believe this is a practical concept for financial planning but it serves as a bit of a building block for an investing philosophy. Another building block at the other end of the spectrum is that from a numbers standpoint there is an argument to be made for 100% equities all the time. I don't advocate that for several reasons but there is an argument there. Yes the last ten years have been bad for equities, well actually no, the last ten years have been bad for certain equities. The oughts were not the first decade where stocks "did not work" but I do not believe for a moment they are permanently broken.
You all probably know the behavioral finance nugget about negative emotions from losses being far more powerful than the positive emotions that come from stocks going up. People tend to forget about the negative emotions they feel when the market is down a lot or when their picks are not working out.
For those of you that did bargain with themselves as described above, did you remember that you did so before I mentioned it above? I have known people older than me that freak out every time the market goes down some and simply are incapable of remembering that this has happened before. The reason I mention them being older than me is that they have been through more big declines than I have yet they cannot remember what it felt like before and can't reason what happened after. I can promise you that you do not remember every fast decline that you have lived through as an investor.
This line of thinking has influenced me in what I do for clients and what I do in our personal accounts. Getting defensive upon a breach of the 200 DMA is driven off of this subject; that is trying to avoid getting to the point of emotional desperation.
Figuring out the right target for you may not be easy. It is a marriage of how the numbers work with your ability to sleep or in the context of this week's posts not have your day determined by how your portfolio does.
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17 comments:
Herbal tea is too weak. Perhaps xanax is in order.
On a more (or less) serious note, do you Roger or any readers of this blog have any thoughts about William Oneil's distribution day theory about market tops? I can't remember it exactly, something like counting a certain number of distribution days over a certain time frame as being an indicator that a new bear market is underway...
Thanks, L.D.
To steal a line from some one
"There are only two kinds of investors, those with short memories and those with no memories"
SEG
I think older investors freak out not because they have shorter memories (well, memory goes, too) but because they have more to lose and less time to make it up. They (we) are really the ones that need to pay attention to asset allocation.
Today is definitely a Bloody Mary day. Between the last two stock market days (continuing down this morning), the near record storm in Central AZ with power loss (luckily on 4 hrs last evening so far)and our "President of the World" blaming every institution and organization except his administration for our current problems I just don't think Herbal Tea will cut it.....
Marc Farber said something funny this morning.
He said he did not like or agree with President Bush or something like that, but that Obama was making Bush look like a genius.
I think Farber had a good point.
that is funny
SOmewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot
This is fast becoming an Irish Coffee day.
Mike C.,
since you were talking about a correction and the resumption of the bull trend(cycle) I have done some canculation in that regard. On a correction base and with growth of 2% in the US economy we should be touching S&P 9931. If we have a full blown correction, taking RW premises that history rimes. During the dipression money supply was tighten, this time we have Ohbama going after the big banks ect. then we should be touching the bottom or come close. However, mistakes will be made along the way of the recovery and will be manifested in the market. I like RW's quote yesterday when he sayed that "Sometimes this reaches the point of chaos (bifurcation) and an entirely new agreement will need to be established."
Best,
Jeff, from Milan Italy
P.S. I have been watching this all along that as we got higher, complacency started to move in; market services started to crack up the ads, ect. It is intersting at the new year started with a bang and everyone forgot what happened back in 2008-march/2009.
Mike C.,
close to the bottom means S&P 703, based on the same assumptions but with different market phycolodgy. So for the other S&P numer it should have been 993(not 9931).
Best,
Jeff from Milan, Italy
Newsflash from 2011:
Citigroup reported a fourth quarter loss of $7.6 billion this week. The
quarter was so bad that they had to lay off 25 Congressmen
Not letting the banks trade for their own account would be nice start, but it will never work. It only shows Obama's lack of understanding IMO.
It took the banks from the 1930's until Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1998.
Obama is talking about the banks maintaining ownership of the investment houses ans simply introducing a half a dozen rule changes. It will never last.
As long as the banks own the financial institutions they will be hiring a ton of lawyers and two tons of lobbyists to get around Obama's new rules. In very little time they will get a small change and possibly another and it will be back to their old ways.
Remeber these are the same banks that invented SIV that were off book and did not need to be reserved against.
Obama is an idiot. His heart might be in the right place but he just does not understand what needs to be done.
SEG
Bartender, another round! And tea for Roger, unsweetened.
Excuse me I just vomited my tea
Rog-
A couple of years back you made comments about watching the 200 day m.a., and then when markets were below that level, it meant the underlying supply/demand dynamics for equities is not healthy and one should get defensive. Does this still jive with you? What about individual stocks or market sub-sectors. Interestingly, China (FXI) and GS closed just below their 200 day moving averages... thoughts?
that is valid but not what i prefer to do. if you want a diversified equity portfolio you need to have all parts of the market but not all of them might be doing well at a given moment. something that is lagging now could lead later. this is why i prefer to take action based on what the market is doing.
doing this at the stock level would also obviously lead to more trading.
funny article about tea... personally i think it`s to weak..
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