Wikinvest Wire

Sunday, September 21, 2008

Sunday Morning Coffee

The news from the stock market is making its way into the mainstream of consciousness. This probably does not come as a shock but I had some anecdotal evidence of this.

At fire training on Saturday a couple of guys older than me were talking about things in the market after one of them asked me if this made me busier than normal. Stock market stuff never comes up at the fire station.

Two of our part time neighbors (most of the houses near us are vacation homes), coincidentally, called us on Saturday and both of them asked Joellyn if I was freaking out. Very amusingly Joellyn told them both what I have been writing about for a while, "the market goes down sometimes and the market warned ahead of time." Very funny.

On Monday and Tuesday I will be attending the IMN World Series of ETFs in Phoenix. I will be moderating a panel about portfolio construction using ETFs and also giving a presentation on that same panel. I think it will be a great chance to see what people are doing and thinking in the midst of all this beef. Should be a good learning opportunity, at least I hope so.

Blog traffic tends to go up during times of greater volatility (not just me, other bloggers have noted this effect too) which often leads to more comments and questions which is always appreciated.

One reader left a comment about trying to buy VT which is the Vanguard Total World ETF. He said the "bid was 46 (but) when I got it it was 49...yikes...very low volume...please help thanks."

First, as a buyer you are more concerned with the offer than the bid. A market order to buy is entitled to the offer. The bid means very little unless you are trying to split the middle with a limit order. Based on the one day chart on Yahoo Finance it appears he executed during the minute of 9:37 which undoubtedly was a fast market condition as the market was in the process of panicking up. The reader says low volume, yes, it appears the fund's last trade of the day was at 12:33. It wasn't halted, just a lack of interest.

This is not really my type of trade but whatever you had in mind with this you have probably surmised by now that the strategy would have been better suited to something that trades a bazillion shares instead of something that trades 83,000 shares. VT is a broad proxy, there are plenty of other broad proxies with more volume.

Another reader asked if I would stick reequitizing if we went above the 200 DMA on Monday. The short answer is yes but there are a few more moving parts. The way I have always worked around this is the day it first goes above (or below) is not the day I do anything. I wait to see what happens the next day. If, late in that next day, it looks like it will hold then I make a move. Notice I say "a move." As I said in the video and in countless other posts, I wade in slowly, not all at once. The impact on the client is less if the move turns out to be a head fake or I am otherwise wrong, which has happened before and will happen again.

If SPX were to take back the 200 DMA so quickly (even if we are talking further out than Monday too) I would be inclined to add exposure for now with an ETF (sorry, can't front run clients with a specific name) as opposed to a an individual stock.

The idea with that is that if it crossed back over so quickly the 50 DMA would probably still be below the 200 DMA and the 200 DMA would probably still be pointed down. Both of these give me less confidence of being correct with that first move if it needed to happen so soon. The reason to stick with it is that you can look at a chart for the last year and a half to see how it has worked and I think it is a bad idea to switch in midstream. The start of the next bull market would be a better time to reassess as to whether a tweak to the idea makes sense or not. Again, just a slight tweaking of the concept.

In describing this you hopefully noticed I am preparing to be wrong. If you manage portfolios, even just your own, you will get things wrong. We know this. The next move you make might be one of the things that goes wrong or not but there will be things that do not work out as you hope. If you know that now you don't need to have an emotional response to it then.

Barron's had an interview with Felix Zulauf that was rather bleak. He seems to be very focused on deleveraging causing this malaise to continue longer than most people think. While I don't know about years more of this the notion that (repeat theme coming here) the "worst financial (whatever this is) since the great depression" results in a milder than normal bear market with no declared recession seems very short sighted. We can kick up our heels if that is what happens but expecting it seems like the wrong path.

It stands to be another interesting week even if it is less volatile. It might be worth your time to check out CNBC Asia or Bloomberg TV when they kick up their coverage later today.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good morning, Roger. I'm still finishing my coffee, so I'm a little slow on the uptake today, sorry. I'm not quite sure I understand your point about tweaking the idea/concept of reequitizing at the 200 dma. Is that a reference to using an etf vs. a stock or is it incorporating the 50 dma as sort of a secondary indicator?

Thanks. Still awaiting the details on the government's plan to help guide me this week.

Roger Nusbaum said...

for now above or below the 200 dma.

should i switch to 50 dma crossing below 200 dma? maybe but not in the middle of a bear market.

Born2Code said...

About a year ago you had mentioned that somebody said the direction of the 200 dma matters when we cross below the 200 dma. I said at the time that by the time the 200 dma points downward and the index crosses BELOW it it would be too late as the index must have been below it for a while, had a counter trend rally and is now failing to hold that rally.
In other words, you should be quick to act when the downturn starts.

However, I believe the exact opposite happens at the bottom. Bear Markets do not end up with V shaped moves, nor with sharp 10% moves in 48 hours. Bear markets end by forming a long base and then breaking out of it. At the end of the Bear market the direction of the 200 dma is a lot more important than at the end of a bull market. I'd argue that it would be very prudent to wait for the 200 dma to flatten out before wading back in.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the clarification. I'd love to see you explore that concept further at some point.

I've toyed with supplementing the 200 dma "rule" by incorporating the 50 dma, 100 dma, crosses, etc. as signals to begin reequitizing (or deequitizing, if that's a word)in traunches.

The idea is that there are canaries in the coal mine that might help me get some funds in or out just a little earlier, smoothing my ride more, instead of waiting until demand for equities is healthy at the 200 dma. One good reason not to is increased trading with more frequent crossover signals.

Another way is to apply the 200 dma by asset class like Faber does, and you do sorta judgmentally when selecting sectors/stocks, I think.

I guess I'm especially intrigued by mechanical signals right now because they help take emotions out of the equation during times like this.

Anonymous said...

Morning,,,

Few weeks ago i stated it would be nice when the micro and mini do something it would be nice to be in play,,it happened,,take a look at the IVW, IJT and the IYC if you are at work (as i was last time something happened)you might not get out when you want to,,this time was perfect...


MAC

Rick said...

Roger,

Seems like I can't read anything about the market today without tripping over the word "unprecedented".

To me, I think that supports the comment from born2code; not that he is necessarily right, but that as you've said, it is much harder to know what is right in this "unprecedented environment" and that reliance on what "has been right in the past" may be more wishful thinking than science.

Accordingly, and in light of the >3.5% moves (both ways), I think I would prefer (and my xanax prescriber would concur) sacrificing that proverbial "first blast off up" this go round until there is confirmation (even if late) that demand is healthy.

So, seeing the price close above the 200 dma will not be enough for me; I want to see how congress reacts to the Paulson power grab, I want to see how treasuries perform as Asian pencils get sharp and analysis on the value of the dollar is completed, and I want to see the first month of reports from the realtors to see if any of this liquidity is actually translating into increased "homes under contract" (or more importantly, the ratio of foreclosures to homes under contract).

I seriously think this IS unprecedented, and our reliance on historical performance and noisy indicators could be just so much guessing right now.

One very serious question: how will the restrictions on short-selling impact the inverse ETFs? I reviewed (quickly) the proshares prospectus and there is reference to [macro?] swaps on the SPX, but I see no disclosure of the external counterparty and I could not tell what the swap was of (a swap of a basket of shorts on the names of the S&P against the S&P index?).

Even if it is extremely unlikely, if it all goes to H in a H, the counterparties on these ETF swaps may fail, and the position - as I understand it - is wholly-unsecured.

Still white-knuckled in NY,
R

Roger Nusbaum said...

Sami, there have been quite a few loud bottoms actually. oct 2002 the move was quite quick.

rick that last i spoke to someone from proshares (I run in into the same guy at every event, probably see him tomorrow too) and he said that while the do spread out the counterparties some, i got the impression that GS did more of this for them than the others.

Anonymous said...

Roger,
For those blog readers that are contemplating an active or passive investing strategy, can you please share your perspective on active versus passive investing. The mainstream media and academic research indicates that the long term odds that active portfolio managers will outperform the indices is quite slim. How do you overcome this concern with prospective clients?

:Here are some "facts and figures" regarding the probability of index funds outperforming managed funds:

"Searching through a list of 234 domestic equity funds that have survived for 20 years, only 31 did better than the Vanguard 500 Index. That means the odds are really, really poor that any of us will do better than a low-cost broad index fund." Scott Burns, syndicated columnist.

"Only about one out of every four equity funds outperforms the stock market. That's why I'm a firm believer in the power of indexing." Charles Schwab

"Just 19% of United States mutual funds that have existed since mid-1980 were able to beat the S&P 500 through May of this year." Mark Hulbert in The NY Times July, 2, 2006

"Of the 355 equity funds in 1970, fully 233 of those funds have gone out of business. Only 24 outpaced the market by more than 1% a year. These are terrible odds." Jack Bogle 2007

Since 1976 the Vanguard index funds have produced a compund annual return of 12%--better than three-quarters of its pear group." Jonathan Davis, London Spectator (2007).

"With the market beating 91% of surviving managers since the beginning of 1982, it looks pretty efficient to me." Bill Miller, portfolio manager

"The S&P benchmarks outperformed their active peer funds in all nine Morningstar style boxes over the past ten years." Gus Sauter (1-25-05)

"A long-term investor (10-20 years) had a 10.59% to 24.71% chance of selecting an actively managed fund that outperformed the index fund." (Journal of Financial Planning

Anonymous said...

thanks for the help with VT
I'm still learning...
it was only a tiny %
of my portfolio.
This coming week should
be interesting as all others.

Born2Code said...

Thanks Roger. I guess it is all a matter of time-frame. The rally in Oct of 2002 was sharp, but 5 months later we were merely 20 S&P points above the lows of Oct (Oct low was 768, March low was 788).
I view the whole period from July 2002 till April of 2003 as building a base for the next bull market which did not start in earnest, in my view, till we closed above the flattening 200 dma in April.

At any rate, I highly doubt we close above the 200 dma any time soon, and i know that you will be rational and gradual in your next move.

Anonymous said...

Asia CNBC at 8:27pm est
Dow futures -127
S&P futures -10.40
Nasdaq -13.50

does not look good BUT
things do change quite
often by morning...

Roger Nusbaum said...

fwiw worth SPUZ futures earlier were down 20 points.

on regular CNBC they put a up a board that had fair value at plus ten give our take, implying that futures are actually closer to down 20 but Maria either did not pick up on it or the board was wrong. not sure which.

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