Wednesday, April 20, 2005
Reader Question
I have been having an interesting exchange about market timing with a regular reader whom I'll call Mr. Z.
This was Mr. Z's last email to me.
I think that for people who follow the market everyday it makes sense to try to play weekly trends like you said to try to avoid the big down chunks. I remember in Feburary you said that the market fells very flimsy. That was due to the Nasdaq lagging. Then in March I remember you said that the market going down a lot seems like a good probability and if there is a bounce that might be a good time to sell without a positive fundamental change. You also had the correct call the Feburary jobs number could be a blip. The rally a couple weeks ago was on light volume so it was no surprise it was a false rally. So for someone such as yourself who can guage things very well would playing trends that are backed up by opinion be a good idea. If you are correct why not try to profit. Of course patience is very important with this method.
To read his email I must now proclaim I am the greatest prognosticator in all the land!! This is of course a humor attempt. It might be more correct to think I've been in touch with the current state of the market and have strung together a couple of accurate calls. To my way of thinking market timing every 4% or 5% based on a hunch I have or some other type of indicator would, I think, violate my fiduciary obligation. Very very few people can time the type of trades Mr. Z talks about. I can not envision a scenario where my trying to manage someone's life savings this way would be the best possible thing for them. Trying to allocate a small portion to this strategy, as Mr. Z suggested in a previous email, would not work either. This type of trading has to include some trades that go bad. So how much alpha could be added with 1/3 of the portfolio exposed that way? Probably not much.
I also think that a timing strategy, as suggested, would put clients through extra stress. Most folks I deal with want to keep up with the market with as little volatility as possible. This is problematic enough without the possibility of ramping up the trading.
Also from the standpoint of knowing your limitations I would have a much harder time remaining emotionally detached if I rolled everything into SPY the day before a 2% drop. This would create a greater possibility of getting whipsawed.
To close I don't think it is a given that getting more big picture things right than wrong (a big focus of my work) necessarily equates to success with shorter term trading.
This was Mr. Z's last email to me.
I think that for people who follow the market everyday it makes sense to try to play weekly trends like you said to try to avoid the big down chunks. I remember in Feburary you said that the market fells very flimsy. That was due to the Nasdaq lagging. Then in March I remember you said that the market going down a lot seems like a good probability and if there is a bounce that might be a good time to sell without a positive fundamental change. You also had the correct call the Feburary jobs number could be a blip. The rally a couple weeks ago was on light volume so it was no surprise it was a false rally. So for someone such as yourself who can guage things very well would playing trends that are backed up by opinion be a good idea. If you are correct why not try to profit. Of course patience is very important with this method.
To read his email I must now proclaim I am the greatest prognosticator in all the land!! This is of course a humor attempt. It might be more correct to think I've been in touch with the current state of the market and have strung together a couple of accurate calls. To my way of thinking market timing every 4% or 5% based on a hunch I have or some other type of indicator would, I think, violate my fiduciary obligation. Very very few people can time the type of trades Mr. Z talks about. I can not envision a scenario where my trying to manage someone's life savings this way would be the best possible thing for them. Trying to allocate a small portion to this strategy, as Mr. Z suggested in a previous email, would not work either. This type of trading has to include some trades that go bad. So how much alpha could be added with 1/3 of the portfolio exposed that way? Probably not much.
I also think that a timing strategy, as suggested, would put clients through extra stress. Most folks I deal with want to keep up with the market with as little volatility as possible. This is problematic enough without the possibility of ramping up the trading.
Also from the standpoint of knowing your limitations I would have a much harder time remaining emotionally detached if I rolled everything into SPY the day before a 2% drop. This would create a greater possibility of getting whipsawed.
To close I don't think it is a given that getting more big picture things right than wrong (a big focus of my work) necessarily equates to success with shorter term trading.
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3 comments:
From deep in memory, John Train's first book was called The Money Masters and it was in this book that he reported that he could not find a single rich person who made his money through successful short term trading.
Obviously, there are market makers who do well by earning a eighth or so off of hundreds of transactions per day. Also there are many stories similar to the guy that bought his BMW in one day off of a good QQQQ option trade. But I have been to Las Vegas with folks who claimed to win every trip!
Who do you know that has gotten wealthy calling short-term trades? I know at least 200 millionaires and none of them "trade" stocks. The odds of winning the lottery are probably better. Playing can be fun but the guys I know who quite their jobs to trade full time are back at work. Even with luck, the taxes eat you alive. The spreads are the real killers.
A quarter-point spread once a day will take 50% of your portfolio away!
Jack Swager wrote a few books called "Market Wizards " on people who had become rich trading. Steve Cohen does well, as do about 15% of the hedge fund managers.
The question "
Who do you know that has gotten wealthy calling short-term trades?"
may have some selection bias. If you live in South Dakota, you may not know anyone who made money in the semiconductor business. Here in Silicon Valley, I don't know anyone who makes money in commercial fishing, but I did in Florida.
So: How much alpha to you give up avoiding volitility ?
If Bill's alpha question is directed at me (the "who do you know" is directed at Jack), I don't know how much I haven't made by not using a different tecnique? I have written that I don't ever expect to beat the market by 20% in any given year.
Most people that hire a manager want to not have to worry about it and have a smooth ride. Most people that read this blog do not want to hire a full time manager. There is consulting demand though.
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